The Real Films of Christopher Guest

This week we're joined by the host of the "More Than Lucky," Podcast, Stephanie Lear.  

Christopher Guest has had one heck of a career, from music, to acting and beyond.  But what may be most interesting, is his directing career.  While he has directed several films, the five films he made between 1996-2016 all share several distinct hallmarks and qualities that make them unmistakalbe Guestian.  From returnign cast members, mockumentary style, improvisational script free run and gun shooting and the inevitable 'minglign scene,' these Guest comedies exist in a world unto themselves.  But do they live up to the hype?  Despite the critical and audeince consensus and awards, are these films that actually make us laugh, or are they so fammiliar that they just sort of feel nice and good?  That's what we're here to find out.  You don't want to miss this one, as you get five movies for the price one with this episode, where we rank the five real Christopher Guest movies, and determine whether or not, they Live Up to the Hype!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is pretty much the worst video of a minute.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And I'll tell you why I can't put up with you people because you're bastard people.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Welcome everybody to Live Up to the Hype, the podcast where we take a look at movies considered to be the greatest of all time or the worst ever made, to see whether or not they are worthy of the praise or deserving of the scorn that's heaped upon them. Whether or not they live up to the hype. I'm your host, Joel J. Pettigrew, and here with me today is my very special co-host.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Very, very special co-host, Stephanie Lear.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

And very modest, too. I like it. Steph, thanks for coming all the way to the studio, to the apartment we share together here. Steph, why don't you tell the folks at home a little about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Sure. Yeah, as you said, well, I am your partner, so that's partly the reason why we're so easily able to watch these five movies together.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

It helps.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

And it was a lot of fun. A little bit about me. I am by trade, I'm an event planner. I love planning conferences, working in the uh association industry here in Canada. But outside of that, I also have my own podcast. I started the More Than Lucky podcast during COVID, partly because I had a lot of time on my hands and a lot of it was filled with thinking and self-reflection. And so I decided to take all of my skills with uh creating content that I learned in producing conferences and turn it into a podcast. So the you can look it up More Than Lucky Podcast. I uh recently started posting episodes for the fourth season. They're really designed for women 35 to 55 who are feeling in that self-reflective space in their life. And they're short, fun, easy episodes and a good moment to connect with yourself and learn something new.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

No, absolutely. Go check out the uh More Than Lucky podcast. Absolutely lives up to the hype. Uh, but can't say that yet about the movie we're gonna talk about here today, or movies, I should say. But before that, Steph, what's your uh what's your interest in movies?

SPEAKER_02 2:30

I didn't actually watch a lot of movies growing up. It's sort of funny. My family was one of those rare families. We didn't have a VCR. We had cable, so I was watching a lot of TV. I'm a TV girl, TV's my best friend, but we didn't have a VCR until much later when a family friend granted us a beta machine. So then we actually had something like we could watch at home. So growing up, we actually would rent VCRs, rent movies and all that. But I think my love for movies really got instigated when I was in grade nine. I had a really cool English teacher. She would take time off every year to go to TIFF, and she brought that love of movies to the classroom. Thank you, teachers who do that. She brought a whole uh unit in our English class looking at movies. We were looking at foreign films, looking at really early black and white, uh, early films that just first had sound. There's a lot of interesting film that she shared with us that for me that was really inspiring. She left me uh with that love for movies. And so ever since then, I've loved going to TIFF. Sometimes I just buy a ticket to whatever I can get a ticket for, because really, when it comes to movies, I'm interested to see almost anything as long as it's not too gross or too scary.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Something to bear in mind as we go through our movie watching experience.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah, no alien. No alien.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Okay, okay. Good to know. Good to know here. Uh, but today we got a bit of a treat for you because we're uh we're not just gonna do one movie here, we're gonna give you five. Uh because today on Live Up to the Hype, we're gonna be looking at the films of Christopher Guest.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

It was so much fun to do this. I had actually never seen any Christopher Guest movies. I actually had known about Best in Show and I knew how well reviewed that was, but I didn't know anything about it. I didn't even know it was a mockumentary, so this was all completely new to me.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yeah, that's interesting. I I'd seen them kind of before, like I think I went through them maybe once or twice before some of these, but uh I do remember seeing them. It's interesting. We're going to that uh TVO, that kind of retrospective of the TVO at the movies, TV Ontario. Yes here in Ontario. And I remember that being all the on all the time, and I do remember the commercials for when they had Christopher Guest movies, and they they used to do these mini documentaries before the movies too. It was maybe like 20, 30 minutes of just behind-the-scene footage and people just talking about. I remember they had one just talking about the style of Christopher Guest movies, which we're gonna get into here because it's they're really unique. They're very they're done very differently than how you see the vast majority of movies done. So, in terms of Christopher Guest, who is Christopher Guest? Well, uh Christopher Guest or Lord Hayden Guest, uh, which is his official title. If you don't know him as a director, you probably know him as an actor because he has been everywhere. National Lampoon Radio, uh he was an SNL cast member in the 84 season, good season. Billy Crystal, Martin Short, and Harry Shearer joined the cast that year. Harry Shearer is a very important person. We'll come back to in Christopher uh guest life and career here. But he has 90 acting credits that you can find, more than 90 acting credits on IMDb. Uh such titles as A Few Good Men, The Princess Bride, in which he plays the Six Fingered Man, Count Rugen.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

That is such a good movie, and that really surprised me. I didn't realize that was him.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah, I know that's the thing about him, too. He disappears a lot into these roles. Uh, I it took me a while before I knew he was in Spinal Tap and who he was playing in Spinal Tap, which is the most Christopher Guest movie that has ever been made that is not actually directed by Christopher Guest. And you'll see what we mean in a minute here. Uh apart from that, he's a really accomplished musician. He's can play every instrument from mandolin to clarinet, guitar, drums. He's like Paul McCartney over here. And he's worked with some real bands that have gone on to win awards and things like that. Uh, and he's also made some joke bands that have just bec happened to make really good music and have gone on to be accomplished. Uh, and also he's been uh married to Jamie Lee Curtis since 1984. So good year for him. Uh met Harry Shearer, was on SNL, he was the anchor on SNL that year, and married Jamie Lee Curtis, and they're still together. So that's a nice little thing there.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

It's interesting. To me, it like some of that stuff that you describe about him. It's just like he has that really driven sense just to create. He loves creating in in so many different forms, and that makes me think a little bit of you too.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

You too? Like Bono in the edge? No, you, Joel. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

You're a creator at soul. Like, whether it's your writing or recording or the songs that we make up around the house, like you've just got a heart and a soul to create.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Yeah, like it's it's interesting because Christopher Guest, too, um, thank you, first of all. But Christopher Guest as well, he touches on that need to create thing. That's one of the themes he comes back to again and again, the the act of creation. So we'll get into that a little bit more. But before we get into the films of Christopher Guest, we have to define what are the films of Christopher Guest. Because Christopher Guest has done a lot of stuff. He's done some TV and some mainstream movies, but some of the movies he's done aren't Christopher Guest movies. There's there's five real Christopher Guest movies here uh that he made between 1996 and uh 2016 was the last one. And they are Waiting for Guffman, best in show, a mighty wind for your consideration, and mascots, which he made in 2016 for Netflix. Uh he had a two-picture deal here with Netflix, uh, but he said, eh, uh after he made mascots, uh, I have no more ideas. So he just retired. And he hasn't made he hasn't directed a movie since then. Which is kinda good. It's kind of good to say, yeah, I've got nothing left. I'm not gonna fake it. So I like that here. But I mean, in terms of the hype around Christopher Guest, uh he's not short of accomplishments. He's only one T short of the E-got. He has an Emmy, a Granny, and uh Oscars. He got uh six total Oscar nominations and two wins for song and score. Four of these were for a best in show and the song and score, the winners were for a mighty wind there. He's somebody who has been everywhere. He's he's been a musician, he's been an actor, uh, he's written and won awards for writing, and of course, as a director, so and he's well regarded in pretty much all of these professions here.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yeah, absolutely. No, he's well deserving in that. And I'm I wouldn't be surprised if Beston show ended up with getting him that T and the Egot. Put that on stage and make a great show out of one of these. That's so much.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

That's very interesting. Yeah, like uh like one of those Monty Python, like a spam-alot or something where they'd be, yeah, it'd be so much fun. Well, they take like what you saw something recently. What what was it like back to the future?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

I did. I saw Back to the Future, and I was I was impressed with how well that came together and some of the um production pieces around that with how they brought the car to life and different things. And so even with some of his movies here, you can just it I think it depends on a lot of the production and the way people creatively envision and bring them to the stage because sometimes it doesn't feel good when we see these things translated in that way. But I see a lot of potential with a number of these movies.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Every movie that's been famous or was famous in the 80s or even the late 90s is being made into a musical now. But with Christopher Guest, uh it's interesting you said that because I can kind of see it like um waiting for Guffman, particularly. There's like that there's like that Putnam County spelling bee, that that musical, it's got that kind of a vibe. I could see it translating really well, and um with some of the themes he covers here as well, which we'll get into a bit more later. But uh first, how how did it come how how did we come to because this was not a plan. We did not sit down and say, We're gonna do a podcast about all the Christopher Guest movies. We just kind of went through them on accident and then found ourselves having gone through all the movies said, Hey, let's talk about that. But how how did that come about here, Steph?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

So right now it's uh March 2026. So um unfortunately, I guess maybe now it was about three or four weeks ago that uh we got the news that uh we had the loss of Catherine O'Hara, the great Catherine O'Hara. Um she has been high on the radar in Canadian culture for a very long time now. With the last show that she was doing was uh Shits Creek. That was a runaway hit um, particularly in Canada.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Swept swept the Emmys in his final season. Yeah, absolutely. Won like every Emmy. So even Americans were like, whoa, dang, there's stuff coming out of Canada. And for our American listeners, it's a small country up here. So whenever one of us does good, we we glom onto them.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Or we hate them. Or we hate them.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah, we we do want Catherine O'Hara is very much the former uh Canadian treasure.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

And her Moira character in Shits Creek is hilarious. She just oozes that character to the max, and she just makes it so exciting and enjoyable to watch that show. The chemistry that she has with Eugene Levy in that show, as she does in so many places, is just off the charts.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

So yeah, and that's a chemistry that they've developed for years because they they came up through uh SCTV. That show pumped out so much great talent. Martin Short and the like great Joe Flarity was on there. Dave Foley, uh, Eugene Levy, Katherine O'Hara, Andrea Martin, Mike Myers. So big, big comedy stars who are still working, still going doing great stuff came out of there. She was she was forged in that fire as well, and of course has gone on to be the the mom and home alone and yeah, yeah, just everything and all the Christopher Guest movies as well, which is kind of how this came about because uh soon after she passed.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I put a lot of pressure on you, like, okay, now we have to watch Shit's Creek again, and I want to go watch these movies that she was in, and then you knew about these Christopher Guest movies.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Which were all on Netflix right after this happened. So they they knew what they were doing there, and I was like, Oh yeah, I haven't seen these in a while.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

So And I enjoyed that first one that we watched so much, I was like, let's keep watching more. This is cool.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Kept watching them again and again, and before we knew it, we had gone through all of them. But you said you you hadn't seen these movies before, or not at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

No, I haven't seen any of them. I actually would have thought that Best and Show was a more serious movie because I what I knew of it was when it came out, it had like a lot of acclaim and a lot of people talked about it. So it would never have dawned on me that it was a mockumentary.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Yeah, again, it was nominated for four Academy Awards there. It was uh it was well liked at the time. And Christopher Guest movies, they pretty much all they're all kind of around the uh 7.3, 7.5, maybe some of them drop off, but they're generally they're they're pretty well received. Some of them are very highly regarded, but everybody's kind of like, yeah, this is these are pretty good. These are pretty enjoyable. They they kind of sit in that that comfy place, I would say. Yeah, absolutely, I agree. Yeah, so the interesting thing about Christopher Guest movies, or these five we're talking about here, is uh they all kind of go through the same the same kind of tropes. There's there's there's always these these hallmarks that they touch on. If you were to do a Christopher Guest bingo, which don't do it, because you will be dead by the end of Act One, um and speaking incoherently by the end of Act Two. But uh they they hit on a lot of similar things. Uh the first I would say is probably the most marked one is the mockumentary style, which is a term he hates, but I don't know why he does it so well. But basically the way they work is he and Eugene Levy are kind of writing partners. I mean not for all of the movies, but to begin with, and they'll they'll write characters for the actors in the film, and they'll have an idea of where scenes will begin and end, but people will just kind of go in with their characters, and Guest himself has said that when the camera starts rolling, I have no idea what I'm gonna say or where things are gonna go. And he these things take hours. And back in the day, because we're starting in ninety-six, right? Is this film. We're talking about actual physical film, just reels and reels of film. He'll get hours and hours and hours of film.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

I actually read it was fifty hours of film a lot. Fifty hours of film. 50 hours of film for a number of these films that we watched.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Yeah, and he cuts them all down to like these are all 90 minutes. Yeah. Which is another reason we went through them. Yes. 90 minute movies. They need more of them. These Christopher Guest movies here are all are all in that category.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Okay, so just on the mockumentary thing, I was interested in that, and it made me think sort of where did mockumentary movies start? So I'm gonna pop quiz you. Do you know what one the earliest mockumentary style movie and who the director was, or maybe you know one of them.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Um I'm trying to think. Like it wasn't Spinal Tap, was it?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

No, it wasn't. Is it the Ruttles? It's on the list of early ones, but it wasn't the earliest.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

It wasn't the earliest. Ugh. I don't know. You're quizzing me here.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

I am so it was 1969.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

It wasn't the Ruttles.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

No, I don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

That's a Beatles, but it's it's similar to these, actually. It's a it's a Beatles mockumentary of this group called the Ruttles, and it's narrated by Eric Idle.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Okay, so it was Woody Allen's directorial debut, and it was Take the Money and Run. And that was presented as a documentary about a dysfunctional bank robber.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Really?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Take the money and run. Yeah, wasn't the one with the cookies?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

It doesn't mention cookies here. I don't know. Maybe he uh had his hand in the cookie jar too. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Yeah, no, I know that I didn't know that. That's new to me.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

And so not until ten years later, uh there was Real Life in 1979 by Albert Brooks, which satirized the documentary style following a crew attempting to film an average family. And then later uh Zelig by Woody Allen, and then this is Spinal Tap in '84.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Yeah, and this is Spinal Tap again, not a not a Christopher Guest movie, although he's in it. It's directed by Rob Reiner, but very, very uh influential. That deserves its own movie because there is so much just about Spinal Tap, but we're talking about the movies that Christopher Guest uh directed here. Uh so we talked they're they're mockumentaries, uh highly improvisational. Some of these don't have scripts. Most of them don't have scripts. It's mostly just your character, here's your character's backstory, this is kind of what's happening in the scene. And actors are just put into the blender and they just go. And I don't know how they don't crack up in these takes, uh, because these movies are so funny. But uh there's a whole bunch of other hallmarks that really make what is a Christopher Guest movie. Uh some of these that might be on your Christopher Guest bingo card would include putting on some kind of a show or doing a performance, uh characters who are lovable losers or hasbins or amateur wannabe stars, uh fraught relationships, usually there's characters where there's history or you see couples in turmoil a lot of the time, or or groups of people who kind of have friction between them, band members and the like. Uh there's always uh some LGBTQ characters, uh some Jewish characters, Judaism features in all of these movies because I think his grandfather was uh was Jewish. He was a Jewish convert uh way back in the day. Um there's always a sense of a fight in the system or like a scrappy band kind of kind of doing things their way. Uh characters, a lot of these characters have dark pasts, tragic pasts. Uh in one of the movies, somebody says, Oh yeah, I was on the street before coming here, one of the characters in the movie. So there's some dark things that they often get a lot of humor out of, but yeah, a lot of dark character pasts. Uh and then there's some hallmark scenes like the six months later scene, or the some I think in uh Guffman it begins with three months later, and then by the time we get to uh Mascots, the last movie he made here, it's a year later. So but there's always a a post-credit. Where are these lovable band of rap scallions now? And there's always a mingling scene. There's always a scene where there's like a party, usually before a show, where characters are just mingling. It's so sipping wine and hors d'oeuvres and they're just kind of talking together.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

It's so funny. That would never stand out to me as like a trope. So it was interesting for me to that you picked up on some of those patterns, especially with that mingling scene piece, and then I also was able to start seeing that pattern with you.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

I haven't done the uh the flow chart where you check off all of these in every movie, but I I think it's in almost all of them, if not four out of the five. Uh oh, and then very important here, we have songs that are funny, but also kind of brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Very well done.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Very well done. The music is it does it deserves its own kind of look. We're gonna do a deeper dive into that later, but very funny, very interesting. Uh oh, and also this is this is something kind of heartwarming here. There's always small victories. Like there's always little sometimes characters don't necessarily win, but they win in ways that are important to them. Where they get these little small victories here and there. And usually not all of them, but usually like you have that central group of characters where ah, they just they did it. They did the thing. And it's I don't know, it's it's very nice, very charming. Uh, but and you can't talk about uh the Christopher Guest movies without talking about the Christopher Guest stars. This is the troop because he always uses the same kind of actors in all his movies. And this is another thing that'll get you very drunk very fast on the bingo card, just watching as all of these characters, all these actors rather, pop up. Um and I think they mostly all came together. He knew people from different places, him and Michael McKean went to school together, Harry Shearer, he met on SNL. So he collects people from different places or runs into them in different places, and then from waiting for Guffman on, it was just, yeah, you're my regulars. Let's go, pretty much. Uh, do you think you can name them all?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

No, you can't. You think you can name all the big ones? Okay, I I can give this a try. I've got some of them. Uh I think one of them was named Bob Balaban. Bob Balaban, yes. Yes, okay. Uh obviously Catherine O'Hara, love her. Obviously, Eugene Lovey, love him. Uh Jennifer Coolidge, she was one of the ones that surprised me a little bit. She came in to the cast in the second movie. Movie we watched, and she was in a few of them, I think. So that was fun to see her there. Parker Posey, one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

I just like the name Parker Posey.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Uh Fred Willard. He's always hilarious. Just the way he sinks into things is just next level unreal and so much fun. Um, and then Ed Begley Jr.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Yeah. Those are all the big ones here. I don't have them all. Oh, Jane. Oh, Jane Lynch, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Jane Lynch. She's sharp. Oh, and Larry Miller. And that was like the one actor I knew that you didn't know because you knew Jennifer Coolidge. Oh, I knew Jennifer Coolidge, yeah. But I knew Larry Miller from Being the Dad in Ten Things I Hate About You.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

And you knew Jennifer Coolidge from the uh Legally Blonde.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

But also so many things. Like she's just a riot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

And then Michael McKean, who is of course the uh the brother in Better Call Saul.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

And then you said Harry Shearer, he's the voice of Skinner and The Simpsons, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:57

He's the voice of a lot of people. Skinner in The Simpsons is probably the closest to his voice. Yes, the hello, Superintendent Chalmers, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

I think in a couple of these movies, his role was an announcer person. So his voice was just more in the background, not so much that he was an actor on screen at one of them.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

In uh in Best in Show, he's voice only, but in a lot of them he appears uh and he and Michael McKean, uh Michael McKean, Christopher Guest, and Harry Shear are often paired or paired, the three of them paired. They're often three P's in a pod musically in these movies, which begins kind of in uh kind of in Spinal Tap. He he worked with both musically kind of before separately, and then Spinal Tap, they all came together, and then from there on they they they're paired together a lot in these movies and significantly. Uh but of all these actors, uh, and I will say the thing about Christopher Gastier is he really knows how to use his cast. Um the whole style of just running, letting them go with it. Uh he knows how to edit the scenes exactly on the beat to make to make the punchline work. But uh which of these actors really stand out to you? I would say I would argue they're all very well utilized by guests, but who are the kind of standouts for you?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

I think one person that stood out to me was Jane Lynch, after having been a fan of hers um when she did that singing show. Glee. Glee. I was gonna say Glee.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

I have to think about it.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

I'm like, it's not glow. I'm glow though. Glow is slightly different. That was a good one too, though. Yeah. Um, but Jane Lynch, it was cool to see her in these movies because I think she's one of those um actors that really gets sort of typecasted in a way. Um, but I felt like in this movie, like we saw her in like a few different types of characters, and sometimes I was surprised to realize uh it was Jane playing that character, and so for me that was um one of the people that stood out that way. But Fred Willard, uh his humor and the way he captures the comedy, he had us in stitches a couple of times, especially best in show.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Fred Willard makes he he does the lovable boob who is so stupid and so clueless, but is not at all malicious, which is interesting. Like he always seems like a generally good person who is just having the time of their life in every scene. He does that so well, that specific brand of comedy, and so naturally too. He's he's a big standout, he makes some of these movies for me, which is saying a lot because I would say all of these characters are are all of these actors are very well utilized.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

And then the last one that stood out for me is I'm gonna mention Eugene Levy. I think also in a similar way, what I was saying about Jane, I saw him appear in these movies in a few different ways, and I liked seeing that kind of variety and also sort of the width because he's a great actor, and so seeing sort of that sort of variety with him was fun as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Yeah, he you really get to they really get to play uh a variety of roles here. They all have their strengths and the things they can do, but like in uh In Best in Show, Catherine O'Hara is like a former sex bot kind of thing. And then in um Waiting for Guffman, she's a travel agent who's never traveled outside of Blaine, Idaho, I think it is. Yeah. They're just like and is just like really repressed and really like like is really on edge and like kind of like all just wound really tight. So they they do get to they are very well utilized in the things they can do and are good at, but they do generally get to stretch their legs and play different characters and different types of characters, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

And I also like the diversity among the group, like the Jennifer Coolidge, the Parker Posey, even like uh Larry Miller. I just I felt like there was like um different types of people, and it wasn't all people in the same type of age group either, which I think makes it more interesting as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Yeah, there's a variety of ages, variety of of looks and builds and backgrounds, and even characters that show up like David Cross is in um Waiting for Guffman. He shows up as a UFOologist for all of like two minutes and thirty seconds, but is just perfectly utilized in that role. And it's all of the all of the people he casts, even outside of the regulars, feel like that. You'll see somebody and you'll feel like I know this person. I know this person. Because they're just they're so well cast in the types of roles that they're playing that you just feel like, oh yeah, that person is this type because how could they be anything else? So it's it's really it's it's really impressive how he works with and utilizes the actors here.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Uh for me, I would say that it's it's a lot of those kind of duos. Uh Levy and O'Hara, their chemistry together is magic. Obviously, it's something that's built up over decades and is one of the cornerstones of uh Shits Creek for the whatever the six seasons that there were of that. That was strong enough to to build up from there. And uh Guestshear and McKean just have this comfort with each other. They they riff off of each other, all three of each other in the scenes very well, and they make music really well together. Really well. Getting into the getting into the meat of it here, because we didn't see these movies in any particular order. We just kind of were like, oh, let's see this one, uh let's see this one. So we thought it'd be kind of fun to go through kind of our our rankings of the movies, these these five classic Christopher Guest films from worst to best here, and uh just kind of see what each other thought uh where we landed on each of these movies.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Okay, so let's be clear, we're not doing worst to best because they're all actually really fantastic too. So I don't want anyone to misunderstand and think this is the worst movie.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

The worst The worst Christopher Guest movie has something in it. It has moments in it, it has things that are gonna make you laugh. It has all of these characters who are, again, all very well utilized. So the worst Christopher Guest movie is still probably better than a lot of other movies, a lot of other comedies, certainly.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

A well-used 90 minutes for sure. Okay, so let's do this. So we're gonna start with my number five.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yeah, let's start with your number five.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Okay. So my number five, I decided number five was Mascots, which was the 2016 Netflix.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Okay, mascots appears a little higher on my list, so why don't you take it away here?

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Okay, so honestly, I wasn't sure if I'd like this one, but again, it was interesting because guest he he's really diving into a really specific niche topic. And I think it's when you get into those niche topics, um, it's sort of like that TLC factor. You're getting a look behind the curtain, and sort of sometimes you're looking into a world that you don't get to see. I was also a little bit worried that mascots could be a lot about furries, and I wasn't no I wasn't sure that I was gonna be comfortable or I would like that, um, but it really actually turned out that the nature of the mascots were pretty diverse in terms of their costumes and different pieces like that.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

There are those two furry scenes where you just see a furry in the background like touching another mascot just repeatedly on the shoulder, and it's pretty hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, so the joke is there and the reference is there, but that's not what it's about.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

You kind of have to have that in there. But the way it's done, it's just it's in the background. The furry is doing the furry thing while the guy in the foreground is describing what a furry is to someone who doesn't know, and that's that's that's Christopher Guest humor in a nutshell, in a big way.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Uh so something I did like about this one was that he brought back one of the earlier characters, Quirky Sinclair. Yes. And that was a fun tie-in to uh waiting for Guffman, so I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Yeah, and I I think one of the Fred Willard's character in that, he's a mascot coach, and you see him reading a dog magazine. So there's always there's a bit of there's a bit of a guest universe here.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

But uh yeah, uh Eugene Levy even said like every time he plays Corky St. Clair, it's just a joy to watch. We'll talk about that more when we get to waiting for Guffman, but yeah, it was it was great to see him return. And again, he disappears into these characters. He very much does.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah, so then in terms of the mascot premise, I thought the variety of the mascot costumes was entertaining, and some of them were pretty weird, but like in a okay way, it didn't make me feel weird.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Just to talk about what this movie actually is. So it's it's a mascot competition. There are mascots for different sports teams from around the world, from the UK, from Canada, from all over the United States, come together, and I think there's Heshi and the Worm from Israel. They all come together and they do a kind of a little performance, like something they would do to pump up the crowd uh back with their respective teams, and they all have their own kind of tricks and gimmicks, and some of the suits can do interesting. Like Chris O'Dowd, his character is a is a fist for a hockey team, and the fist flips the finger at one point, the mascot costume does. So there's there's little things like that. Uh, but yeah, it's a it's a competition. Yeah, so really which is uh another familiar guest theme, the competition.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

I think what makes this movie so funny, um, it's really because of the seriousness with which the participants in the competition take for the their roles. And so people are really showing up hard and sort of bringing that story of people coming internationally and oh, I've worked for this, this is the dream, like like I'm fulfilling our family's destiny and some of that kind of stuff. It really gets down deep, but so well done is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Yeah, it it is an interesting thing because uh his other movies are very much Americana, like like Guffman is literally in a tiny town in the US, right? But this movie feels more international, and the way he utilizes the international actors, a lot of people he hasn't worked with before, I thought it was integrated really well.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, and fun fact, uh, it was actually screened in the pr special presentations at the 2016 Toronto International Film Festival. The TIFF I was talking about earlier.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Yeah, and this is the uh this movie was the the first, the only one that was uh produced by Netflix. So yeah, that's a that's kind of an interesting deviation here. Again, they wanted to get two movies out of him, but uh he said, no, I don't have any more ideas, mascots, and then I'm done. Gonna live my life, make music.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

So question for you. I saw one comment, uh a comment from one reviewer, uh like in a newspaper or something, that said the plot was almost non existent. So I'm wondering, what do you think about that? And what's the difference between things just happening versus a plot?

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Have you seen a Christopher Guest movie? Is the is what I would say to that person. No, there's there's clearly a plot. There's a it's centered around a competition. Everyone's trying to win. Yeah, all of the all of the characters are geared toward they all have goals. They all have clear goals, right? Like the like the character who's the hedgehog, Sid, his dad used to be the character, and he wants to branch out and do his own thing, and the dad is like, no, that's against tradition, because it's a it's a traditional, I think it's a rugby club or a football club. There's that whole element to it, and at the end, he he does his pop proud. Again, talking about those little victories. Like, no, the characters have clear goals, there's a clear end point. It's just, yeah, it's and it's it's the nature of movies that are improvised as well. Scenes will happen and characters will do things, and sometimes they'll meander about, but it's all working towards that goal. So, like, I I don't know. They like there is a plot.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Okay, that makes me feel better. Because I was like, how does this not have a plot? Then what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Like, there's I guess like the a lot of the beats are just like, oh, we're rehearsing for a show, we're rehearsing for a play, we're arriving at the venue, oh, there's an introduction to the character, but it's like it's I I I get what they're saying in a sense, but in another very real sense, no, there's there's a clear beginning, middle, and end here. There's a there's a there's a very clear end point as well. Something we're all here for and working towards.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

But all it culminates in a in a point. So for me, that was my number five. Like I said, there wasn't something that I particularly disliked about it. Um, but for me, I think there was just some things that I liked or thought were fun, a bit more about some of the other movies. So I'm curious, what's your number five?

SPEAKER_03 36:01

My number five is uh not his last movie. I believe this was the second last movie he ever made, and that is I keep wanting to call it Home for Purim, because that's the movie in the movie. Uh for your consideration. For your consideration is uh my number five here. Uh and the reason why is is really simple. What's the big thing, Steph, that's different about this movie than all the other movies?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Uh the Departure from the Mockumentary Style.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

The Departure from the Mockumentary Style. This is uh scripted all the way through, beginning, middle, and end. And um this one is interesting because in preparation for going through all the Christopher Guest movies, we actually did see his first film, his first feature film, I should say. He's he's done like music videos and things like that, which was uh The Big Picture, which was a scripted it was a scripted story about a young director who wants to get his dream in Hollywood, and then he kind of sells out and becomes kind of a cheap hollow version of himself, but then fails, and then does a music video and finally gets his dream at the end and gets back to his roots, which is just pursuing what he's passionate about. That movie didn't work for me. Um, and it's it's not a Christopher Guest movie because this is before he got that style, but a lot of the a lot of the similar things that didn't work for me about that movie didn't work here. For your consideration, it's about a bunch of people who want to get nominated for an Oscar. And the thing that didn't work for me about this movie and the big picture that have these same themes of because Christopher Guest lurks like he gets distributors and stuff like that, but a lot of the movies, especially early on, very low budget and very kind of like run and gun, seat of your pants kind of thing. Like you can tell they're made with a lot of love, uh, especially early on, they're rough around the edges. He doesn't seem to like I can't even say he doesn't play well within the system because like he's done SNL and National Lampoon and so many things, but it seems like he really just has a problem with Hollywood where the humor comes across more cynical, where in all the other movies I would say it's more juvenilian satire. It's uh sorry, it's more it's more Horatian satire. Confusing those. What does that mean? I don't know what either of those mean. Ah, this is where my English degree comes in good for me. Oh my goodness. So uh Horatian satire is where you're making fun of something because you love it. It's like I love Star Wars, but yeah, he kisses his sister and it's a little weird, but I still love Star Wars. That's uh Horatian satire. Juvenalian satire is where you're making fun of the thing, but you also hate it. You also want it to burn down. I think Christopher Guest hates Hollywood. I it's very telling that his first movie that he ever made in the Hollywood system, and this had like Kevin Bacon in it, McKean is there again, uh, Terry Hatcher is in there, Fran Dresher, like a lot of a lot of stars are in it, but it it's very telling his first movie is about how cynical and shallow and hollow Hollywood is, and this for me was was more of the same. I didn't find it as funny. It was it was it was a little more just like this whole thing is kind of stupid, and I think Christopher Guest is at his best when he's being sweet. And another thing that just didn't work for me is the movie they were making didn't really make sense. Uh it didn't really feel like an Oscar Bait movie to me. It was like a a Jewish story about a Southern family. There was a Tennessee Williams 1940s kind of flair, but it was still the time place in which the movie was being shot was now. Um yeah, I don't know. And a lot of attention is devoted to this movie within the movie, and it just it wasn't as interesting or or funny, and I I don't know. It it didn't work for me. One thing that did work for me about this was the uh uh I I like the scene where they're like, hey, the movie's great, it's perfect. Uh we just need you to change everything about it. And they're like, oh, well, it it's celebrated during the holiday of Purim. What if it was Thanksgiving? What if it was Easter? Like that was that was kind of funny, but uh yeah, I don't know. It didn't didn't really work for me. And again, I really missed that uh mockumentary format.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah, actually, I mean that movie was my number four, so I can just talk about it. I'm pretty similar to you. Um and I thought it like for me, the joke about this was how the stud like you were saying, how the studio intervenes in the plan for this movie that is being talked about for Oscar recognition, and then they slowly turn it into a totally different movie that departs from that core theme of a Jewish family celebrating Purim. It's like the joke that it's not like a la ha ha ha kind of joke, but yeah. Maybe that was the beautiful movie. And maybe it was something that was in that that connected with something else that let's say that's what started the Oscar buzz, but then the studio gets involved and they start chirping, and they're like, Oh, okay, so let's put in some tropes that just generally connect with the audience that are easy to sell, let's make this an easier to connect with movie.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Yeah, they're talking about the mainstream audience. But the the thing too is like going back to the big picture, his first movie, they they he does that same exact theme. He's he's not adding to anything here because it starts off, oh, there's a couple, there's like a triangle happening, a love triangle happening in a cabin in the woods. And then they start uh the executives like, okay, but what if they're like uh bikini models or something like that? Or it was girls on spring break, I think. And like it just it just becomes a completely different thing to the point where that character, when all the funding falls through for their movie, is pitching that same bad idea just to get the movie made. I think it ironically, I think that early film says the same thing a bit better.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Oh, interesting. I didn't even really consider it that way, but I do I get what you mean, and I can agree with that. But I also thought it was funny that the only person who ended up being nominated was the person who slept through the announcement. Um, and I think that really speaks to what happens when we try too hard and we lose our initial intention in what we're doing, and that's where we lose our magic is when we're not really following the true calling of what we wanted to create.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah, you you kind of have that spectrum there, which is interesting. Um Marilyn Hack, the Catherine O'Hara character, really want this is like her last desperate grab at this. Uh Harry Shear's character is tired of doing commercial work. He just wants to be able to make pictures. He's kind of best known for being the voice of a toothpaste or something, and he just he just wants to do movies. He just wants to do the theater and movies. Uh Parker Posey is the ingenue coming up, and her she's in a relationship with their their kind of like anti-establishment until she gets nominated, and then she gets caught up in the whirlwind of it. And yeah, the hook at the end is the guy who never cared about it is the guy who gets nominated. He sleeps through the nomination announcement. So yeah. Like there it there is something here. Yeah. I do think there is something here. I just for me personally, it just didn't quite come together. It wasn't as funny. Uh, and again, I think Christopher Guest is the best when he loves the thing he's making fun of, which I think you could say about all the other four movies. Is he loves the subject matter?

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Yeah, I agree. And another fun fact this film actually received its world premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival in September 2006.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

There you go again.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

What was your number for?

SPEAKER_03 43:52

My number four was mascot, so our number four and five are just uh switched here. But yeah, I'm I'm not gonna go over too much. Again, without mascots, except for um there's a lot of new blood here. Uh like Chris O'Dowd is in here, and uh Gabe from the Office, whose name I don't remember, but he will always be Gabe from the Office, are here. And you know, they I think he works with the new blood here really, really well. They're really well utilized. Um, again, just he he trusts his actors where just puts a camera on them, lets them go, picks the right people for it, and even things like at the very end, like Gabe when he's when he's going, help me, help me. He's got this look in his eyes, like he's terrified, which is I didn't remember much about this movie coming back and visiting it again, but I remembered that. And the other thing I just want to say is all of the the mascot's little what would you call them, like skits, I guess. Uh, they were a lot of fun. Yeah. It was a lot of fun just to watch this competition.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Yeah, the show they put on for their competition and their piece for it, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Yeah, they did they do fun things. The the plumber character, there's a little poop that comes out of a giant toilet and they dance together, and the fist is walking around and there's a there's a referee foil going after them. And then, of course, the the kind of big climax is uh Sid the hedgehog doing his big stunt that makes his dad proud. And again, like I like that Christopher Guest movies, by and large, they've got that little bit of, and again, this was missing in um uh for your consideration, but all these other movies, there's there's little triumphs. Not every character gets them, but little bit of a win that you get. Ah, yeah, you did the thing and you you showed that you could do it your way, and you did your daddy proud the same way, and he says, Ah, you were a better mascot than I ever did. So these get yeah, these movies they they do have very definitive endings and arcs for the characters.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

I think in Mascots 2, we sort of see a little bit how with Christopher Guest staying true to his style, even though he had a a number of different actors from that usual troop, that he really hit the nail on the head a lot better than when he departed from some of that style when he was doing these um non-mockumentary ones with uh the four-year consideration, where maybe he just didn't really sort of get it as well as he did with the mockumentary ones.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

It's interesting that the script, if you can call it that, is better when they're not writing the script.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's part of it too.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

So interesting. The the only criticism I could really have against mascots, I think it didn't land as well for some people looking at the ratings, but the only thing you could really say about it is, ah, there's another Christopher Guest movie, because this was the last movie, and he is doing the same things again, but I don't know. Like for me, it's just it's it's a comfort. You see, ah yeah, there's Parker Posey again, and ah, there's Bob Balaban, and oh yeah, it's another competition, and we're all a bunch of these misfits. Like it's it's familiar, but it's charming. So I I didn't really I mean that's really the only thing you could say about it is oh, if you were asking AI to come up with a Christopher Guest movie, it probably would have done mascots, but it's still an interesting AI to watch.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

I think that's pretty fair to say. So what was your number three?

SPEAKER_03 47:23

My number three was Waiting for Guffman. Oh, okay. Uh so just the premise of this uh quickly here. Uh there's a little town called Blaine, and it's their centennial, and they get uh quote unquote big New York theater director to come in and basically put on a community theater production for the centennial of the of the town, about the history of the town. So you're getting characters like uh Eugene Levy's dentist character who haven't acted before, and wannabe actors like the couple played by uh Catherine O'Hara and Fred Willard and just a whole mix of people. But the big get is that a big New York theater producer named Mort Guffman is coming to see the show, and everybody thinks this can be their chance at stardom on Broadway.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, I mean, maybe you've been a dentist and maybe you're ready to go to Broadway. That's just what these opportunities offer, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Exactly. Like everybody's got that, like you see that in the Eugene Levy character where he's like, ah, I thought being a dentist was uh the happiest moment of my life, but now that I've done this acting thing, I'm hooked. And um, yeah, it's just what what I like about this is it's just it's it's the first one, so it's more rough around the edges than some of the others, but I think that adds to its charm. And you really get a sense of place. Like you really get a good idea of this tiny little town in Blaine. I I think it's Missouri, actually, that this happened. Yeah, it's Missouri. It's Blaine, Missouri, where you know, the big thing that happened is President McKinley came by accident one time, his train stopped here, and then a little boy gave him a stool, and he liked the stool. So that had a big boom of stool production all over uh for this little town where it basically made an industry. This like president accidentally stopping by invented industry in this town. You get a real sense of this place, and I think we all just we've been through little towns like this, or we know little towns like this, and it's just yeah, it's it it had a tremendous sense of place for me, and I don't know, just a lot of a lot of fun little moments here.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Yeah, that was a really fun one. I like that too. For me, it came in a different spot on my list.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Okay, we can talk about that more later on. What was your number three, Steph?

SPEAKER_02 49:55

My number three was A Mighty Wind from 2003. Uh so the theme of that one is a folk music reunion of I think it was like three or four really big acts.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

I actually I actually love all the names here. So there's a big there's a huge group of folk singers who are kind of the more pop mainstream folk singers, the new main street singers, and then the folk trio, uh, which McKean, Harry Shearer, and Christopher Guest are called the folksmen. Wonderfully named, and then the duo in um uh Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara, the like kind of like a Sonny and Jair thing going on, I guess, there. Uh they're they're just Mitch and Mickey. Uh just wonderfully named all of these groups that really capture the idea. They they make f fake groups that seem plausible.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Well, it's so interesting because when I looked up a little bit about this movie, I learned that uh the film is widely acknowledged to reference folk music producer Harold Leventhal. Um and he's the inspiration for the character of Irving Steinbloom. Um, and according to Wikipedia, uh Harold was one of folk music's most successful promoters, working with people like Pete Seeger, The Weavers, Woody Guthrie. And he was also known for connecting then new artist Frank Sinatra and booking him as a singer for a Benny Goodman event. Um but I loved the music in this one, and I think that's something that we talked about at the top was the really excellent quality was that they didn't just write music to fill a space, but they wrote folk music that people who enjoy that genre would really enjoy and love and really connect. And I think that's part of what makes the characters so real and connectable. It's because there's such a high level of talent in the way they perform and get into that part of the storyline when they're singing.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

You you get this in Spinal Tap, uh, where the music just kind of sounds like rock music. I would say that this movie is like the folk version of Spinal Tap. They made folk songs. Like one of the songs in this movie is I think it's called Wandrin. It's supposed to be a standard. It's supposed to be something that's been around forever. Everybody has a different version of. Here you see the big pop version of it and the small kind of little trio acoustic guitar version of it. And it just feels like something that exists. They basically made a song that felt timeless, where the purpose of it was to feel timeless. I'll talk more about the movie later because this is higher on my list and the music specifically, but yeah, it it feels really authentic. I think because it is. I think because they just wrote a bunch of folk songs earnestly.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Yeah, and it was so interesting. Okay, so back to my fun facts. Um, I didn't know this, but apparently guest McKean and Shearer first appeared as the folksmen in season ten of Saturday Night Live in November 1984. And then the folksmen later appeared in Spinal Tap's 1992 TV special. I didn't know that was a thing, the return of Spinal Tap. And the original concept for a mighty wind was to give the folksmen their own narrative vehicle, which I thought was pretty interesting. A kiss at the end of the rainbow, um, which was composed for this film um by McKean and his wife Annette O'Toole. Uh that was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Original Song.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

I think it won, actually. Yeah, it won. It won. This one won. It won, and the uh the score. It won for score. So those were the the two Oscars that uh uh Christopher Guest has here. But uh yeah, I I want to go back to the uh what you said about uh folksmen and spinal tap. So Spinal Tap is the is the fake band comprised of Harry Shearer, uh Michael McKean, and Christopher Guest. They play these, you know, hair band rockers kind of thing, uh, who are kind of past their prime and all that. So the return of Spinal Tap was a concert they did at the Royal Albert Hall, uh, and the folksmen, their opening act, are also played by Harry Shearer, Michael McKean, and Christopher Guest. So you know how like Woody um no, not Woody, was uh Andy Kaufman was famous on Taxi for having contract for him and his alter ego Tony Clifton? That's right. So this is the same level, only the opening act is the guys in the band for that show, and they both went out and produced albums worth of music for both of these fake bands which actually had real performances. So, like usually you have the idea and then you make the fake thing to go around it. They kind of did it the opposite way, where they're like, hey, why don't we just write a bunch of rock songs? Why don't we just write a bunch of folk songs? So they did that and then did the comedy around it, which is kind of wild.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Begs the question. Is it a fake band if they're legit? Hello.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Well, the thing is they're playing in character, which is, I mean it's a character, but doesn't KISS perform in a character?

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Yeah, yeah. Like they're not a fake band, but they made money.

SPEAKER_03 55:38

Yeah, they perform well again, that spinal tap deserves its whole own thing. But yeah, the the folksmen are basically the spinal tap butt.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Yeah, I really enjoyed that one. I'm a big music fan. I like a lot of different genres, so for me it was really enjoyable just to hear great quality music. But also, of course, with all of these movies, the comedy that goes along with it and just the actors and the cast that are a part of it, it's just so much fun to watch. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

What was your uh your number two here?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

So that was my waiting for Guffman, um, the 1996 one, the first one that they put out. Um I really liked that the characters really felt like people that you'd actually meet in a small town. Like for me, it felt really relatable in that way and having that good variety of people. Like you described some of the different things that people had their jobs with travel agents, dentists, one of them works at a dairy queen.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

Another mechanic who can't even make the show. He can't even make the show at the end because his dad won't let him go. He's gotta work late. So the day of the big show, he gets replaced by Corky St. Clair.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

But literally, those are the people that you're gonna meet in a small town if you go to a place like Blaine. Uh, the other reason that I really enjoyed it was the ridiculous history of the UFO. And you also reminded me about that bit with the the train and the stools, like making a whole industry because your president accidentally stopped off there and took your stool to the White House.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

Like that's that's what happens in these small towns is somebody will come through, and the big thing about the town was someone was here once who you've heard of. And for them, it's President McKinley. That was their big get with President McKinley.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

That's so true though. Actually, now that you say that, I think that sort of like it sort of makes me think of like closing malls in America and how small towns die is that these towns do get built around an industry, whether it's stools or mining or something else. Like these little small towns get centered around that, and then that's their whole life. It's a big part of their culture. Um, that's really interesting. But I think they did that in a really fun way with having that train stop and taking the stool. But also, like what I really thought was funny and ridiculous was the UFO. That was great. Um, and also the founder of Blaine convincing people they were a lot closer to the Pacific Ocean. I can't remember what the detail is.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

I think he's taking them across Missouri and he's like this Jebediah Simpson kind of he's he's like a Lewis and Clark kind of guy with the coonskin hat and everything. And then they're around the campfire one night and he stops and he says, You smell that? That's salt in the air. That's the ocean. California's just on the horizon over there, and they're in the middle of Missouri. But then they decide, ah, it's good enough here, and they just stay. They never got to California, they just they just stayed, and that's why there's the town of Blaine.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Wasn't there also a part of it where he'd like convinced them that they could hear the ocean or something, but the sound was actually something else?

SPEAKER_03 58:35

Something like that. I don't remember, but it's yeah, that's it's so funny. The whole history of this town is so interesting, and I I gotta say, like, of all the movies, this maybe has the funnest climax because the fake community theater musical that they do is just hilarious. It is so fun watching this production, and it's it's where everybody's singing kind of just good enough, but not really good a lot of the time, and the choreography's a little stiff, but you get what they're going for, and just he captures that so well, or even people using their stage voices. Jimmy, there will be time for kisses later. Come on, just one little kiss, like that kind of staginess to it, like it is so well done. Guest is better than anyone at capturing the feel for something in a way that's both parody and feels completely authentic.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

Yeah, and I really like this because it for me it shows that pride comes from the heart and the soul of the town, not from anybody's one accomplishment. And so that really brought came together on the stage for these people as they performed this story of their town with so much pride.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Yeah, can I can I say as well, like the a thing I like about this? So I talked about it with the um uh for your consideration in the big picture, where there's more cynicism there. So the show is a little hokey, right? It's a little rough around the edges. Their their big lead, their male lead drops out at the last minute, and Corky St. Clair is in there, and he's just a weird fit, and there's all this weird stuff going around. Every time they caught to the audience, there's moments where they're laughing or clapping or singing along. Larry Miller is having the time of his life. Loved it, loved it, loved it. Love this show. Like there's there's people in intermission saying, Wow, I knew Corky could direct and produce and write and do costume design, but man, can he act? He's a star. Like people genuinely like this, and I think there's I don't know, there's something very sweet about the fact that, yeah, it it it it you know, it's it's a community theater show, but people really enjoy it. Like it's they didn't go up there and like the scenery's not falling down, they're not falling on their faces, the the alien number, nothing ever happens on Mars, is meant to be a comedic song, and people are laughing along with it. And it's you you get the sense of that. And it's I don't know, it's just nice. It's it's just nice that it's yeah, it is an actual little victory there for all the casts at the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Absolutely, and and I love the way that it wrapped up. Um the epilogue was three months later, and for me it really left me with that thought that nothing changes but love goes on.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Nothing changes but love goes on. Yeah. I I found it very sad. I found it very sad, but you know, Corky Sinclair, he's selling off his movie memorabilia, and he he's kind of still got that optimism. Maybe I can get this big part if I just I just keep going at it there. But uh yeah, I don't know. Little I I found it kind of sad, but yeah, at least they're a lot of them are still out there and they're still trying to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

So where did you land for number two?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Where did I land for number two? Number two for me was uh best in show.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Hmm, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

So best in show, it's a it's a dog competition. And um a whole bunch of different people from all over the place. Uh Christopher Guest plays like a redneck character with lives in a trailer, and he's got his big old bloodhound, and then you've got uh Jennifer Coolidge and Jane Lynch have Rhapsody in White, who's this like poodle with this very interesting haircut and is like a pedigree winner and things like that. And just I don't know, just the the collection of characters here is great. Uh Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara, who is a sex bot and has done everybody that they run into. Literally. And he's just this like kind of awkward nebish guy with literally two left feet. He he has trouble walking. He used to only be able to walk in circles, but he's figured that out now with practice. And uh yeah, just just this array of characters coming to this dog show. Uh, and again, we talk about the authenticity. They were going to actually film this at a dog show. I saw that. But then no one would let them. No one would let them, so they're like, okay, we'll put on our other and they kind of put on their own dog show. And that's the thing, like the characters entering these dogs into competition are silly, but the dogs are pedigree, and the judges are taking it very seriously, and one half of the color commentary is taking it very seriously, the other half has no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

We'll get into that in a bit, but you even see that in the credits too, the way they credit the dogs with their official names, because dogs have like show names, but then they also have call names. And so that you see that in the credits that it's not just like Lucky the Dog, um, but this is like a professional show dog.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

These dogs are actually all show dog champions in this movie, and it it feels like that, just the sound, the way the auditorium is set up, the way they walk the dogs around, even that like I I don't even know the names of these actors, but the characters they got playing the judges, just the way they're like, okay, the bull mastiff over here, the poodle over here, and they're they're just calling them and they're inspecting them, it looks really authentic, and that just makes it so much funnier when the wacky stuff happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. It was actually my number one movie. Um, Best and Show, that was my number one. Um, and in one of the things that I actually read about this movie was that Best and Show was the inspiration um for the broadcast of the National Dog Show, which is aired each Thanksgiving on NBC since 2002.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

Yeah, I remember reading this. So the reason you can watch the national dog show is because of this mockumentary about a dog show.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

Yeah, it made it really understandable and relatable, but also because they couldn't be at a dog show and they created their own. Like they went 100 on it, and it l really felt like, oh, they must have been using somebody's dog show like off hours or something, maybe that they're using that because it felt so thorough and well done. Even like the quality, like you were mentioning, the judges really felt like, oh, they somehow found judges from a dog show to come and do this for them.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

This this was both r high for both of us here. So uh what what were some of the big standouts for you about Best in Show?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Um, so I mentioned I did mention earlier, I remember this uh coming out when I was younger, like I guess in 2000 when it came out. Um and I remembered all the acclaim about it, and I didn't know um I really thought it would be more of a serious movie and not a mockumentary, so that was a pleasant surprise, and I liked that about it. Um and then I think some of the other things that it was just like a fun peek into a world that was notorious for being a little bit crazy. You have that idea uh that people like in dog shows and those kind of competitors are just so like neck deep in what they're doing, and they take it so seriously, and they're so much invested in these. Dogs.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Dog people are not people who own dogs, but dog people, a little bit crazy. Competition people, very much a little bit crazy. You mash them together, you get some crazy, crazy characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

Um, maybe only like next to like horse owners or maybe something crazier. Maybe more. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

It's like a miniature horse here, but like for me, there are so many things about this movie that are there are lines that are iconic, there are scenes that are iconic. The naming nuts scene is one of the funniest scenes. Like it lives rent-free in my head. And basically, everything Fred Willard does or says in this movie, this almost was my number one.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

On the sole strength of just how funny Fred Willard is in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

Huge part of it. Like him being at that table, having no idea what was going on, and just sort of every single line he has.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

And just again, so earnestly, like you could tell he's like some local TV guy or whatever. He's just doing this event because of the paycheck, has no idea. But he's so just happy to be there and to talk and just say things like, oh, what if they put a little a little deerstalker hat and gave him a pipe and the dog was like Sherlock Holmes? And um uh is and then his co-host is just like, no, no, it's incredibly dangerous. Like so straight laced, like so authoritative. And then at one point he just throws a script away and he just goes, Hey, well, this might be a little off uh topic here, but uh out of left field, but how much do you think I can bench? And then he keeps going on about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

And I think it's so great to have that character there because dog shows are so serious, like so much of the rest of it. Like you have these different couples there with their dogs, like all of them are super stressed out in different ways. They're stressed out about their dog, or maybe there is uh the relationship with the handler, different things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:58

But the dog is a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

Yeah, the dog was a problem, and then you have this Fred Willard guy on the side, like to the person he's sitting there making these jokes to, he's just like, You're ruining this all for all of us because this is a very serious matter. But he's there to have fun and he makes so much fun for us.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

That's the thing, he's not even telling jokes, he's just he just really believes this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

He just not making fun of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:25

He thinks it would be the best idea to put a little cap and a pipe in a dog's mouth, and that would like get you all these ratings. He thinks it's a great idea, and you're not gonna convince him uh otherwise. It's so funny. And like, and again, all the very professional, very authentic looking to the point where I'm like, Did they film this at a dog show? Footage, and he's just saying all this rubbish over top of it. It's it's great. And again, um, you get the little the little triumph at the end where Eugene Levy, two left feet, can only walk in circles, but then he has to be the one to present the dog show.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Oh, it's a spoiler, folks.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

Well, these were okay, a spoiler from 1920. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

It's live up to the hype.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

These movies have hype.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

So, I mean, speaking of Levy, I thought it was interesting that he also said um that for this movie there was a much wider appeal than Waiting for Guffman, which was a funny movie and a funny premise, but not as accessible as Best and Show, um, which peep which is a bit more mainstream just because people love dogs so much. So I think like guest made like a really great choice in terms of having that kind of storyline that people would be curious enough about because they love dogs or they're interested in that, and then they come out and follow them.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

I'll be honest here. Uh that's one of the reasons it's so high up on my list. Uh these dogs are all fabulous. They're they're fan, they're so much fun to watch. A lot of them are really fun. It's fun to see the quirky owners interact with them. I especially love just how how Christopher Guest is just kind of like grabbing the big old, big old bloodhound and is just like wrinkling up his skin and things like that. And it's just it's a big hefty dog, and like he's a he's a good old country boy, and he's just the way he's showing him love is just a little bit rougher, and it's just but it seems really authentic, and it's just like ah, yeah, I want to I want to be petting that dog too. But that's that's a big part of it. It's just it's fun just watching these people interact with these dogs. I think he hit the the nail on the head there.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

Yeah, so for me, best in show was best in guest. What was yours?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

Uh my best was uh number one was a mighty wind. Um a mighty wind is an interesting movie because some of the criticism, if you can call it that, that it got at the time was oh, this isn't as funny as some of Christopher Guest's other movies. Uh it seems a little bit more serious. And for me, uh the interesting thing about it is a lot of the time in these movies, the the people doing the putting on the show, whatever it is that they're doing. Uh, you know, you got a healthy mix of like amateurs and clueless people and people who are kind of you know up their own butts and stuff like that. But in this movie, it's the music is not really on trial, if that makes a sense. All of these acts are very professional. And all of these acts are well loved in their community. It's just that folk had such a very short span of time. You know, you're like 67, 70, there's disco and then it's gone, kind of thing, right? And it captured that idea really well to the point where when they're showing the early versions of these songs, they seem funny. Like they they do the ED at Joe's number with uh they're actually in a set that looks like this little cafe, and you get the humor there, and then kiss at the end of the rainbow, the first time you see that. It's like this American bandstand kind of thing, and there's a big fake rainbow overhead, and it looks all flower power and silly. But then when they actually get to these performances on the stage, and especially Kiss at the End of the Rainbow, it's just it's moving. It's moving and it's fun, and you get into the music and it's it's jaunty, and it's and especially that number which won the award, like it's there are lines in it that are that are heartbreaking. When I hear Katherine O'Hara sing My love, my dear, my darling, just the way she sings that, it's like, oh, like your heart's melting a bit. And just knowing that there are these two people with this very strong history on the stage together, these two characters coming back to do this performance again. There's that there's that it's that bittersweet feeling you get where it's like, yeah, all of these people, all of these musicians have had their day and they've kind of gone on and done other things, but it's also just n a nice kind of celebration of that. And again, this is one of those movies where you can just tell guest loves, loves, loves folk music. Like you you came home the other day, I was cleaning up, and I just had this album on.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

Yes, I thought that was cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:07

Because the songs are just they're just good folk songs to listen to.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

They are, yeah. It was interesting too, because that whole uh part at tw at the end of the movie where they have this big show with these three different groups, it actually stood out to me that um the set and the different pieces that they had for this big show really felt like what I would see if I went and saw that show.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

And so for me, that thoroughness with the production and um I don't know, like I actually loved the different signs that lowered down as the different acts came on stage. There was something about that detail that stood out for me that I really liked that as well. And so I think like that comes back to that thoroughness with whether it's writing the good quality song or with um that waiting for Guffman, like you actually felt like you were watching like a small town musical.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:11

I've seen this play. I've seen that play before.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

Yeah, like I remember like I did high school shows and it has some of that vibe. Um, or if it was like this this big show, this huge reunion that was gonna be celebrated by millions of Americans, I would assume. Like I really felt like I was there with that. Um, and so when that quality really translates, I think that's really a part of that special magic that Christopher Guest brings to these movies.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

Yeah, like just the authenticity in in all of them is just there is a knowledge here and uh just an ability, and especially with the uh the movies that involve music, is to create music that uh sounds and feels authentic, and in some cases isn't just funny, but feels exactly like like he is so good at creating something where you can look at it and you can just go, I know exactly what that is. I know exactly he gets the essence of things so very well. And yeah the ability to make a like the only comparison I really have here is like Bo Burnham, who just makes a country song that's a country song and is also a parody of country songs. You know, it's and it's I think that has to come from a place of love. In order to get something right, you have to you have to really like it, have an interest in the in the thing you're spoofing. And that's something that Christopher Guest does better than I'd say just about anybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

And I read about uh a fun scene that I that was left out of the movie. Um, so it was the New Country Singers or New Town Singer.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:56

New Main Street Singers. That's what it is. Okay, new Main Street. Based on a real group that also had that kind of religious culty thing to them as well. This is coming from real places.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:06

So based on that real group, uh a scene that they left out um was explaining why the lead the lead singer in that group um holds a guitar, but he doesn't actually play it. And that's what happened in the group that they were really based on. And so the scene that got left out was that something got spilled on his shirt and he didn't have time to change into something else, so they covered it up with a guitar, and then from there on out, this man always performed just holding a guitar without ever playing it, which I thought was super funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:38

There are all these like little funny details, and again, because there's there's reels and reels, there's miles of actual film stock that's just you said 50 hours, yeah. Like that's cut down into 90 minutes. Like, imagine that. Like just it you're we're really getting the cream here, but there's so much great stuff that's left on the floor when you have casts like this. And I think I think it's it's telling that all the I think you mentioned before that all these people kind of it seems like they really want to just be doing this.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:09

Yeah, I think that's part of that magic is that this is more than a movie. This isn't just people being like, Oh yeah, I got casted, I have a job, I'm gonna go act because I like to act. But you really see the heart and soul of these movies coming together because these people love creating and performing and doing this together. And so it I think it's that deeper rooted feeling that creates a lot of this movie magic. But especially when you have a style where it's not scripted, having that chemistry with that banter or really knowing each other, I think that's also probably another one of the major keys um about why these movies have been so successful because it's so about so much more than a movie, it's about having fun and working with people you love and creating something beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:58

Even though this is done over a span of I guess ten years, right? Or like twenty years, ninety six ninety-six to twenty sixteen. Um it does feel like, oh, this is uh this is a group. This is like a theater troupe. This is uh it's not just I mean Christopher Guest is like getting the ball rolling with these, obviously, but it is very much this collaboration, it's this group of players coming together, they work well together, they know how to riff off each other, they know how to relate to each other, uh, they have this trust between them. And it's it's just there's a comfort to these movies because it's just you're it's almost like you're seeing your old friends again, only they're really good at acting and singing and dancing, and they're also really, really funny. So it's yeah, there's there's something that's very charming about the way these movies are made, and I think even Fred Willard was saying uh that you know Christopher Guest calls and he's just like, okay, I guess I'm doing a movie. There's a there's a fun story he had about um uh best in show. Uh so he was set the script for best in show and he looked through the script and he's like, Oh, my name's not here. I'm not here. I guess he's just sending me the script as a courtesy. And then Christopher Guest was like, No, no, no, we didn't write you dialogue because we don't need to write you dialogue. Like, usually there'd be something like you'd see like you talk about this topic, talk about this. I I'm not entirely sure how they did it, but like his name wasn't on the script because it was just assumed, oh yeah, we'll just put Fred in and we're here wherever he is, he'll be hilarious. And that's exactly he steal he nigh steals best in show.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:43

And I think that's probably why it was so magical, is because he really just showed up to the guy who doesn't know anything about a dog show, and then he acted like the guy who doesn't know anything about a dog show.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:54

Yeah, it it's so telling that he goes from, oh, I'm just being sent this thing out of courtesy, to no, we trust you so much we don't need to write for you. That really is just what's happening here. And again, like 20 years later, you see the same people showing up all working together. It's like there's there's a love and a bond here that you just I don't know, there's there's nothing really like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

Yeah, and I I like what you said about it feeling like a comfort and cozy, and they're fun and easy to watch, and that really just makes me think like in these times and there's so much going on in our lives and the world, like these movies, 90 minutes, easy to follow, great music, great comedy. It's such a high recommendation that that's a beautiful way to unwind and have a bit of fun and tap into the beautiful things in life.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:47

Christopher Guest movies don't demand a lot of you. The characters, pretty much what you see is what you get. They're not too deep, uh, they're not too bright, the stakes are never that big. We're we're winning a dog show or we're not winning a dog show, but that's refreshing in a way. It's it's nice to just see a movie that's nice, where you have some great music in there, you have some really funny performances from a cast who all just have this amazing level of trust with their director, and it's all really, really funny. Even in a quote unquote less funny movie like A Mighty Wind, there are still some scenes there that are fantastically funny. Like Bob Balaban nitpicking every single detail about that production until basically the the other dude just slaps him out of nowhere, and that's how the scene ends. Like, there's there's great stuff in all of these movies. And yeah, they are a comfort. It's like you're you're seeing your old friends again, and you just know you're gonna be in for a good time and a funny time.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:56

Yeah, I was definitely texting people after we watched these movies and recommending them. So I recommend all five of them. Like, take the time, watch them, find them on Netflix, whatever, wherever you find your movies. I mean, even the library is a great place to go get movies these days if you don't want to pay Netflix. Um, but yeah, I highly recommend it. Have fun with them and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:18

I would say, like, so in terms of I guess that jumps to the gun a little bit, but that gets to where we're at. Steph, would you say that the films of Christopher Guest, the five films of Christopher Guest, that they live up to the hype?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:29

Uh on the whole, yeah, I'm gonna give it lives up to the hype. Um, I didn't know about all of the hype, but definitely the ones that I did know about. Um, for sure I give it a big live up to the hype.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:41

Yeah, and I I do the same. It's just they're they're they're just a good time, and at the end of the day, they're just they're just funny. They're comedies that are actually funny and are just feel very real and authentic. Absolutely for me, they also live up to the hype. So, Steph, thanks so much for uh joining me here today and talking about all the movies of Christopher Guest. Uh, but before you go, are there any uh pluggables you want to plug? Is there anything you want the audience to check out? Anything that you're working on?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:10

Absolutely. Uh please check me out on the More Than Lucky podcast. You'll see it in purple on all the podcast platforms. There's um episodes going back a few years, but you'll see some of the recent ones that I've released, and that's my newest content, and I highly recommend that if you're just looking for a moment to have some self-reflection, connect, and sort of think about how life is changing. Um, I'm gonna be there with you on the More Than Lucky Podcast. So you can find me um uh more than lucky.podcast on Instagram. But really the easiest thing to do is to go to your favorite podcast platform and search for more than lucky. And you'll find me, Stephanie Lear, there.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:56

Stephanie Lear, more than lucky. Once again, Steph, thanks for joining me here today on Live Up to the Hype. It's a lot of fun going through all these movies with you. And thanks again, everybody, for tuning in. If you like what you heard, feel free to like and subscribe so you never miss an episode, and tell all your friends too, because movies love company. Remember to be kind to each other, keep your stick on the ice, and we'll see you next time on Live Up to the Hype. Roll credits.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:23

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:24

I'm gonna bite my pillow, is what I'm gonna do.